April 9, 2013

"I honestly didn't even know I was missing, I didn't know I was gone, I didn't know anything was going on."

"I just thought I was in a big dream," said Kyndall Jack, an 18-year-old woman who had gotten lost in the forest and was hallucinating from dehydration.
She said the last thing she remembers is fighting off an animal with [her friend Nicolas] Cendoya after darkness fell, but she does not recall how the two got separated or what she did between then and her rescue. She hallucinated she was being eaten by a python, she tried to eat rocks and dirt, and thought that tree twigs were straws from which she could suck water....

Her mouth was so full of dirt the first man to reach her was afraid she would choke if he gave her water.
UPDATE, May 2, 2013: Cendoya arrested for felony methamphetamine possession.
Authorities found the drug in the vehicle belonging to 19-year-old Nicolas Cendoya while responding to his and 18-year-old Kyndall Jack's disappearance.

122 comments:

edutcher said...

Life is tough.

If you're stoopid, life is tougher.

MadisonMan said...

called 911 twice on his dying cell phone.

I'm going out into the wilderness. I won't bother charging my cell phone first. What's the worst that could happen?

Widmerpool said...

Glad they're safe, but hard not to conclude they're dopes.

Expat(ish) said...

At the boy scout meeting there was a serious discussion on how to avoid this sort of problem, what to do if you got caught in it, and how to maximize your chances of survival once it's happening to you.

Our youngest scouts did better than these guys - I guess out-doorsy people think this stuff is common sense.

Apparently not. Glad they made it out ok.

-XC

Sorun said...

"We just saw a good place and we were like, `Oh, we're just going to scale the mountain here,"

If that was such a good place, that's where the trail would've gone. I hiked with someone once (a physicist) who thought the fastest way up a hill is via its steepest side.

Widmerpool said...

Here's what New Hampshire recommends. Sounds like they didn't have any.

For Summer Day Hikes:
The Ten Essentials:

Map
Compass
Warm Clothing:
Sweater or Pile Jacket
Long Pants (wool or synthetic)
Hat (wool)
Extra Food and Water
Flashlight or Headlamp
Matches/Firestarters
First Aid Kit/Repair Kit
Whistle
Rain/Wind Jacket and Pants
Pocket Knife

paul a'barge said...

She's a plumper.

Apparently she didn't miss much in the way of nutrition.

Or, maybe she did. In which case what was someone that overweight doing in the woods?

Expat(ish) said...

Ok, I went and looked at it on google maps and it's pretty serious terrain.

But there are a LOT of trails around the peaks, regular roads bisecting the entire park, and quite a bit of standing water. Not MN lake region, but it's clear that there you should be able to find something to drink.

I'm a bit confused how an uninjured person could get lost for four days in there. I bet I could drop two well hydrated cub scouts in there and they'd be to civilization before dinner.

-XC

Mitchell the Bat said...

She hallucinated she was being eaten by a python, she tried to eat rocks and dirt, and thought that tree twigs were straws from which she could suck water....

You want to stay away from those mushrooms unless you know what you're doing.

carrie said...

They had a lighter with them so you can only guess at what they were smoking.

Emil Blatz said...

The 'shrooms, talking there.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Mitchell the Bat said...

You want to stay away from those mushrooms unless you know what you're doing.

That was my thought. Dehydrated to the point of hallucination by the first night is pretty extreme. I was wondering if they started the trip with something to advance their goal of touching the clouds

Oso Negro said...

Ah yes, the hikers lost in the urban wilderness in Los Angeles. I swear, there are young people these days who would starve with a refridgerator full of frozen pizzas and a functional microwave.

edutcher said...

paul a'barge said...

She's a plumper.

Hardly.

Not underfed, but she's no Ashley Graham.

Nonapod said...

It's amazing how much money, time, and resources (and even occasionally the lives) are wasted rescuing stupid people. Between Police, Park Rangers, Coast Guard, and countless volunteers protecting dumb-dumbs who think "Maybe I'll climb this mountain even though I don't have any supplies or experience!" or "Let's ignore the weather report or not even bother to check it!" or "Ohh, I think I'll just go off on my own for a bit, I can catch up with the others anytime!" and on and on...

Aridog said...

Almost unable to comment on this one. Wow. And a plethora of media outlets "buy it?" Wilderness where your cell phone can be heard ... where you can make calls?

Trust me, "wilderness" is not the word you're reaching for.

No compass? Er, did either of them have an analog watch?

Larry J said...

sonMan said...
called 911 twice on his dying cell phone.

I'm going out into the wilderness. I won't bother charging my cell phone first. What's the worst that could happen?


If there were in an aera with marginal cell phone coverage, their phone would've used a lot more power trying to find an active tower. That'll drain your batteries much faster than normal. Even if their phones were fully charged when they started their hike, the batteries could've been drained in a short time depending on the available cell coverage.

They came close to becoming Darwin Award nominees due to their poor preparedness and their leaving the established trails. They're lucky to be alive.

madAsHell said...

They were attacked by an animal, but show no scars.

"Don't take the brown acid."

mrs. e said...

To paraphrase 'American Werewolf in London'...stay on the trail.

Wow, just wow (shakes head).

Paul Zrimsek said...

"Maybe I'll climb this mountain even though I don't have any supplies or experience!" or "Let's ignore the weather report or not even bother to check it!" or "Ohh, I think I'll just go off on my own for a bit, I can catch up with the others anytime!"

These are the things you say instead of "Let's go off one at a time and look for him!" if you don't happen to have any lurking chainsaw killers on hand.

Rae said...

I remember looking at the picture of the man they rescued, and thinking "not an outdoorsman".

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Drugs and stupidity. Some people just don't deserve to live.

It's amazing how much money, time, and resources (and even occasionally the lives) are wasted rescuing stupid people. Between Police, Park Rangers, Coast Guard, and countless volunteers protecting dumb-dumbs who think "Maybe I'll climb this mountain even though I don't have any supplies or experience!" or "Let's ignore the weather report or not even bother to check it!" or "Ohh, I think I'll just go off on my own for a bit, I can catch up with the others anytime!" and on and on...

THIS.. Let's go climb Mt Shasta in January in the middle of a huge snow storm and when you get stuck, fall down a glacier, break a leg....whatever....expect everyone to put their own lives in danger to rescue your stupid ass. AND THEN, expect everyone else to pay for your idiocy. If you are climbing a mountain or hiking, you do it at your own risk and your own expense.

Shanna said...

Even if their phones were fully charged when they started their hike, the batteries could've been drained in a short time depending on the available cell coverage.

Or how much time they spent taking pictures, facebooking and playing doodle jump.

EMD said...

This will be on a future episode of GIRLS.

Original Mike said...

Why doesn't the nanny state put a fence around the wilderness? For our protection.

virgil xenophon said...

Proving once again that real life is stranger than fiction...one of those "you just CAN'T make it up!" things...Darwin Awards indeed..

CatherineM said...

They were going to die over night? From dehydration?

I hate to say it, but it does sound like 'Shrooms.

virgil xenophon said...

@Original Mike/

Pish Posh, you're so very retrograde...dontcha know virtual fences are the in thing? Just ask Big Sis..

Original Mike said...

@Widmerpool: I have a little kit I take with me anytime I head into the woods, even for a short period of time. It pretty much matches your kit. Not the clothes, though. I want the kit to be small so I always take it. It does have a space blanket. And no food. You can go a long time without food; a lot longer than I plan on staying lost.

Rabel said...

"Kyndall Jack, 18, and her friend, Nicolas Cendoya, went missing on March 31 in Cleveland National Forest..."

Two very lucky people. Imagine if they had been in Detroit National Forest.

bagoh20 said...

Despite being very close to civilization the mountains of Southern California are pretty dangerous. They are rugged, steep, mostly dry, and often either too hot or too cold to survive without the right equipment and training. They are basically vertical deserts with little to support a human on their own. Lots of steep cliffs and canyons, and rocks. But, they look so inviting from the car.

They have killed quite a few people over the years, and almost got me more than once. I wouldn't mind going out that way at all, and I may yet. I just hope my dog finds her way back if I do. I've already told her that she can eat me if necessary, but I say that to all the girls.

Bob Ellison said...

Drunk, high, or stupid?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Drunk, high, or stupid?

All of them.

Mouth full of dirt. No way is anyone not high on some sort of drug going to fill their mouth with dirt.

Drugged up dopes.

Sam L. said...

See this article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2305149/Kyndall-Jack-How-did-teen-hikers-lost-wilderness-able-Los-Angeles-skyline.html

bagoh20 said...

"Drunk, high, or stupid?"

Guilty on all counts, and after 30 years of hiking those mountains, I'm still here. It would be a shame to change a winning strategy now. It could even be dangerous.

Lem said...

Another Orange County reserve sheriff's deputy who participated in the rescue slipped and fell 10 feet, hitting his chest on a rock before falling another 50 feet and hitting his head. He suffered cuts to his head, a punctured lung, broken ribs and other injuries. He was released from intensive care over the weekend and upgraded to fair condition.

There is nothing in the story about the kids getting a citation or anything.

No no no... Not a Citation.

bpm4532 said...

One shouldn't go hiking when high.

fobw12 said...

Some people just don't deserve to live.

Hats off to all the rescuers out there who must see this differently, as they continue to put their lives on the line for us often stupid humans. I hope I'm careful and lucky enough to never need your services, but will owe you a debt of gratitude if I ever do.

The Drill SGT said...

I wrote a long post, blogger ate it. Short version:

Lost?

walk down hill.

Your path will cross a creek, dry or not.

follow the creek to the road that crosses it.

Your search party is parked on that road...

The Drill SGT said...

DBQ, I climbed Shasta in July, though we had a plan...

Paddy O said...

bagoh, those were my thoughts too.

Add to this, that there hasn't been rain for a while and almost every water source in SoCal is based on snow pack or rain fall and tends to dry up.

SoCal gets wilderness pretty quickly. It's close enough that people who have been protected by society might be entirely unaware of the dangers, because there's always a safety net in rest of life.

Sounds like they were just inexperienced kids who wanted a bit of nature. No doubt most of us have done things out of inexperience that has gotten us into trouble. And of course they were rescued. That's what a civilized society does.

virgil xenophon said...

2bagoh20/

Remember the 24 Feb 2011 Article in LA Weekly about an architectural designer named Lorraine Jonsson who went hiking in Franklin Canyon Park, got bit by a rattler and was given only 5% chance of survival by the time she made it to help/hospital by dint of chance hikers who happened by? It's quite a story, should go read..

Original Mike said...

"Lost? Walk down hill..."

In Wisconsin, there is no "down hill." But the strategy is still valid. When I go off trail, I always have a "if I get lost" plan. Such as, "there is a north-south road 2 miles east of my current position. If I really become lost, then I head due east until I hit that road." I plan on being lost only one night, tops.

lemondog said...

For Summer Day Hikes:
The Ten Essentials:


GPS for people tracking?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

In Wisconsin, there is no "down hill."

Well that explains so much. There's just no direction for the shit to roll.

Original Mike said...

We bury our shit, Iggy.

AJ Lynch said...

The TV series "I Shouldn't Be Alive" will be calling her soon.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

The Drill SGT said...

Lost?

walk down hill.


That's a good strategy in the right conditions. However, for inexperienced hikers in canyon-infested terrain, it has its own dangers. Not all downhills are walkable, and sometimes it's not obvious until you've gotten to a point where you feel committed to continuing down.

Once they had called for help they should have stayed put and concentrated on finding a way to make themselves seen by people searching for them.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Original Mike said...

We bury our shit, Iggy.

Nice try, but I've read the professors posts on the protesters, the recall efforts, the state supreme court, etc.

Aridog said...

Technically, doesn't almost all of Wisconsin slope downhill gradually from the Minnesota border? Sure seemed like it when I hauled four horse trailers from Detroit to St Cloud Minnesota with a regular dualie pick up truck. Groaned all the way to Minneapolis. Coming back it seemed to coast all the way to Chicago.

Thus the question of where all the Wisconsin shit goes is solved....Chicago! :-))

Original Mike said...

"Nice try, but I've read the professors posts on the protesters, the recall efforts, the state supreme court, etc."

Well, we do have to wait for it to die, first.

Original Mike said...

"Technically, doesn't almost all of Wisconsin slope downhill gradually from the Minnesota border?"

True.

Nomennovum said...

Oh, my. Those two people aren't very bright, are they? At least their rescuers lived. Barely.

Nomennovum said...

Two very lucky people. Imagine if they had been in Detroit National Forest. - Rabel

Rabel. Funniest chick on althouse.blogspot.com. Brava.

The Drill SGT said...

OM,

But in Wisconsin, all your creeklets have water 24/7, correct? So the way the water flows is down :)

ricpic said...

The woods are bad
But the ocean's worse,
Thank God I'm not bitten
By the outdoors curse.

The outdoors are great
From a picture window
Where the kitchen's
A few steps away.

The worst that can happen
Is you trip over a chair
Fall down and crack your head
On a glass ashtray...

And die.

The Drill SGT said...

Ignorance is Bliss said...

I'm a native CA guy. I went to grad school nearby, so yeah arroyos can be a problem and one doesn't want to give up elevation if it may be needed, but knowing which way the water flows and following it, even on a ridgeline is a plan.

"No plan survives contact with the enemy".

so have plan B and C, but the act of planning creates segments of plans that are reuseable, regardless.

No plan is a death sentence, or at least a plan to eat dirt..

Original Mike said...

Drill SGT: If we're talking northern Wisconsin, there are a lot of swamps and bogs. The recent retreat of the glacier left a very "young" drainage system. It can be a pretty tough slog following a stream.

The Drill SGT said...

OM, your "road Plan" is valid. a more advanced version is offset navigation which used to be taught in the military and to all student pilots, but apparently the pilots think with GPS its not needed. Dumb...

http://www.atactv.com/video/1013/How-to-Offset-Land-Navigation

Smilin' Jack said...

Glad they're safe, but hard not to conclude they're dopes.

Even Darwin nods.

Aridog said...

Ditto what Novennovum said about Rabel...Detroit National Forest indeed :)

Lem said...

I hallucinated that the government borrowed trillions of dollars and took over health care where married same sex couples could get infertility compensation.

It was just like these kids are describing... no matter what I tried I couldn't wake up.

I think I heard a man named Romney calling out but he was near a snake den... He never had a chance.

Original Mike said...

Drill SGT: Not able to watch the video at this time. Does the method work in the midlle of a forest? (Do you need to see the horizon?)

Roger J. said...

Interesting thread--I am a "veteran" of 10 extended canoe trips north of the Churchill river in Saskatchewan including Wollaston and Reindeer lakes. Of course in a canoe you can carry lots of gear--but I never go without first doing a map recon to know where (the only) road is. Always carry a map, assuming you have learned to read it) and a compass which you should trust.

The rest of the kit described above is a minimum for survival. And in northern Sask I do leave a note on my car so when the mounties find it, they will know what to do with the car--I do not expect them to come looking for me, however.

chrisnavin.com said...

Perhaps many more Californians, wandering the chapparal beyond the strip malls will come to such conclusions.

A unionized, high speed train boondoggle should keep folks on track.

The Drill SGT said...

It's about finding point, like a town from a plane or a bridge crossing a stream.

you know the azimuth to the target, but can't be sure because of terrain and errors to travel there directly, so,

You purposely nagivate to a point offset of the bridge. offset enough to be greater than your direct navigation errors. When you hit the road, you "know" that the bridge must be that way.

that saves you tring to hit the bridge directly then walking the wrong way to your death if you miss the direct route to the bridge.

hope the simple explaination makes sense

The Drill SGT said...

I'd add one of those metal mirrors to the list.

Original Mike said...

"I am a "veteran" of 10 extended canoe trips north of the Churchill river"

Cool. Of course, as you note, on a backpacking or canoe trip, unless you are separated from your gear, the consequeces of being "mighty turned around", as Daniel Boone once said, are not so great.

But, a quick trip into the woods can separate you from your gear. That's why I keep my integrated survival kit intact even when I'm backcountry camping.

Inga said...

Wasn't there a couple who were high on Meth, who got lost and froze to death a few years ago, not far from a populated area? I believe the female actually spoke to rescuers on her cell phone at some point.

Roger J. said...

full disclosure: I am a graduate of the Army Ranger School--I am comfortable in navigating cross country--BUT sometimes things go wrong and you must have a plan B (and C and D). My son and I do frequent map checks to confirm where we are; and we always look back to see what a return trip would look like. Strangely enough, it looks a lot different returning than going.

Original Mike said...

"hope the simple explaination makes sense"

Common sense. I didn't know the technique had a name.

There was a SurvivorMan episode where he comes out to a railroad line in the middle of an Ontario wilderness. Which way to head along the tracks, left or right, is a decison of some consequence.

chrisnavin.com said...

Sometimes you can't bring the meth heads back, Inga.

The Drill SGT said...

OT, I posted this on B5 on a Thatcher thread, But I think Rojer and Ari will enjoy the video:

Aunt Brat's post, which you linked to above is very good and very much worth reading. Of special note, since this is a MilBlog is the Falklands video with what looks to be all contemporay war footage. If you are the Brits, you are stuck with the label, so you might as well, buy into it. The Video, here:


Falklands War: The Empire Strikes Back



The soundtrack? You guessed it :)

Roger J. said...

Original Mike--my suggesting would be stay put (after first making sure the tracks are in use). There will be a train by sometime.

Original Mike said...

@Roger: Good advice.

tiger said...

'Ignorance is Bliss said...
Original Mike said...

We bury our shit, Iggy.

Nice try, but I've read the professors posts on the protesters, the recall efforts, the state supreme court, etc'

Iggy if your name is true you must be one blissed-out moron.

Jes' sayin'

The Drill SGT said...

Roger beat me: I was going to say,

as the son of a 40 year RR man, is there rust on the tops of the rails? If not stay alert and figure out how to flag it down :)

Skyler said...

Those of you that think this was urban have never been to the Cleveland National Forest. I think I've even been on the Holy Jim Trail in my youth. It's rough terrain, large mountains.

Anyone can get lost, and it's not necessarily a bad idea to go off trail, but it would be wise to remember how to get back to the trail.

I don't know much about the effects of various drugs, but that woman had to be on the influence of something.

Original Mike said...

OTOH, if the tracks are in use, a train will be along no matter what you, so if you think you know which way to go, you might as well get a start on it.

If the tracks are not in use, choose wisely.

Original Mike said...

Off to a lab meeting (wish I were in the woods right now).

Roger J. said...

Drill--thanks for the Falklands vid--I would have preferred "hail Britannia" for a sound track, but the Falklands campaign makes an important strategic point: If you cannot project combat power you are most likely doomed. The Argentians, a few humdred miles from the Falklands could not--The Brits 12000 miles from the Falklands could.

Michael K said...

At least they weren't eaten by mountain lions. That happens around there. Probably too steep for the lion.

Mel said...

Expat(ish) said "I bet I could drop two well hydrated cub scouts in there and they'd be to civilization before dinner."

If they were from our Cub Pack they would not move from where you dropped them, but would blow the whistles that I tell them they need to carry until someone comes to find them.
If they were from my other son's Scout Troop, they could find their way to a road, I'm sure. But they might not try for the first 24 hours or so. We tell them the first rule of survival is "stay put" because the search party will be moving.

These two went into the woods unprepared. I took more water than they had on a five mile hike with my 6 year old on Sunday. I also took lunch and a snack. And, of course, we have taught all of our kids the first rule of hiking is "stay on the trail". That might actually be the second rule after "always have a buddy." But these buddies didn't do each other much good.

LordSomber said...

If only they had watched Bear Grylls they'd know how to solve that thirst problem.

Expat(ish) said...

@Mel - good point, they do know not to move and not to separate. The ones that have taken wilderness survival would just build a shelter and try to attract attention. The others would just huddle up.

My prediction of people is that they will always do something perverse. So they'd try to walk out. :-)

-XC

Expat(ish) said...

@Mel - Ok, I just talked to my 11 year old boy scout (one cooking campout away from first class, yeah, man!) about this to see what he'd do.

He asked if he knew he was lost and needed to behave that way or if it was a situation where he was expected to orienteer his way back to the other scouts. "Dad, if I was 10 feet off a marked trail, would I sit and wait for you to show up?"

A very good question. Was it Daniel Boon who said he never got lost but spent some time in the woods not quite knowing where he was?

-XC

bagoh20 said...

Unless both legs are broken, I'm not staying put. It may be smart, but I have issues. I just can't wait for someone to save me. It's just not how I'm made. Besides, I need a drink.

"They call me the breeze."

And this "dehydration" sounds like a great cheap buzz. It could really catch on.

Rusty said...

The certain way to get rescued in the mountains in California is to start a fire.
The fire people will come to investigate and rescue you.
Put out the fire before you leave.

bagoh20 said...

@ Virgil @2:25p

Thanks, I checked out that story of snakebite. That woman apparently got a really bad one. I've hiked quite a bit in rattlesnake country, but have only encountered one once. I always hike with dogs, and I mostly worry about them getting bit. They're running through the brush looking for trouble the whole time. I'm constantly thinking: "could I carry one out from here?" Usually not. I'm just too damned old. A rattler bite is just about the worst thing that is also very likely. Also falling off a cliff, which worries me a lot. Sometimes, I'm clinging to a rock barely able to go on, and my dogs just come running past like it's flat ground. My ancestors were tree dwelling monkeys, and I can't climb for shit. What's up with that?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I've gotten lost while deer hunting in the Madeline Plains area. High dessert and in the Warner Mountains. Follow a stream. Go downhill. Try to head consistently in one direction. Try. Not always possible. When well and truly lost, fire your rifle or pistol in the pre arranged 'help me I'm a moron and I'm lost pattern' and stay in one place. All fairly general good tips. Make frequent looks behind you as you go along to memorize significant landmarks so you don't get lost. When everything looks the same, like in the high dessert, create a few trail markers yourself with rocks or cut limbs.

No matter HOW lost I got, I never ended up with a mouthful of dirt.

Chip Ahoy said...

If you ever get lost the first rule to follow, and I learned this from television, is to just go ahead and shoot Guilligan right off.

Michael said...

Bagoh20: Read The Last Season by Eric Blehm about someone going out that way.

The Drill SGT said...

DBQ: Cedarville? Doesn't get anymore remote in CA

Petunia said...

Oh good grief. They're either some of the dumbest people on the planet or they were stoned on something. Or both.

Rocketeer said...

High dessert and in the Warner Mountains.

Sounds like one of those fancy plen air gourmet "events."

bagoh20 said...

@michael 5:18pm

Just ordered the kindle version of "The Last Season".

Thanks.
~
Yes Meade, I used the damned Alhouse portal. Get off my case. What next, you want I should spit in a tube for ya? You got a portal for that?

bagoh20 said...

I used to eat dirt as a kid, but that was before the drugs. I'm doing much better now.

SGT Ted said...

I'm going out into the wilderness. I won't bother charging my cell phone first. What's the worst that could happen?

Here's what happens to your phone when you go into the wilderness, or any area with no signal. Your phone stays on while it searches

SGT Ted said...

I'm going out into the wilderness. I won't bother charging my cell phone first. What's the worst that could happen?

Here's what happens to your phone when you go into the wilderness, or any area with no signal.

Your phone stays on while it searches endlessly for a signal that doesn't exist, thus draining the battery within a couple of hours. So, when you manage to wander into a signal area out there by accident, your phone is pretty much dead.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

DBQ: Cedarville? Doesn't get anymore remote in CA

Oh no, not not that far out!! Yikes. Just for hunting...X Zones. However I do highly recommend this for a low key relaxing time....if you can get there. No telephones or television. Bring food, booze and get nude. Doesn't get much better than that

Synova said...

I thought she was hallucinating because she got dehydrated but they both started hallucinating the first night? Are they just not admitting to the drugs or mushrooms?

Also:

"Another Orange County reserve sheriff's deputy who participated in the rescue slipped and fell 10 feet, hitting his chest on a rock before falling another 50 feet and hitting his head. He suffered cuts to his head, a punctured lung, broken ribs and other injuries. He was released from intensive care over the weekend and upgraded to fair condition."

Good thing they didn't manage to get someone else killed while they were at it.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

LOL Rocketeer.

My bad. Spelling fox paw :-D [yes...I do know the correct spelling of that one too but, what the heck, in for a penny in for a pound.]

Synova said...

"A very good question. Was it Daniel Boon who said he never got lost but spent some time in the woods not quite knowing where he was?"

Sightseeing.

I've spent a fair amount of time sightseeing in San Francisco. I also went sightseeing in Pensacola once.

Ben Calvin said...

I went to the same high school as those kids (many years previous). As many here have said the terrain is very rugged for being so close to suburban Orange County. Holy Jim Canyon was also well known for being rife with Jimson Weed, which can be very hallucinogenic. Don't know if that is still common knowledge among OC high school students, but it was when I was one.

rcocean said...

Idiots never understand the importance of water. Every summer some dummy get EVAC'ed from the top of a steep hill near by. Reason: no water on a 2 hour hike. Result: Dehydration, 911, and Med Evac.

rcocean said...

You can live off your fat for weeks, but you need water daily.

openidname said...

I was praying for them while they were lost. 18 and 19-year-olds are just kids, they make mistakes, and they deserve adult protection.

But having said that, these kids may have crossed the line from stupid to evil. They had beautiful weather, clear with a night-time low of about 56 degrees. There's no way they wouldn't remember the first 48 to 72 hours, at least. So they're liars. It's really spitting in the face of the friends, relatives and strangers who worried about them.

And then there's the rescuer who suffered head injuries. All the news reports will say is that his injuries aren't life-threatening, but that seems to imply that he could have long-term brain damage.

bagoh20 said...

"Datura [Jimson weed] intoxication typically produces delirium (as contrasted to hallucination); hyperthermia; tachycardia; bizarre behavior; and severe mydriasis with resultant painful photophobia that can last several days. Pronounced amnesia is another commonly reported effect.[13] The onset of symptoms generally occurs approximately 30 minutes to an hour after smoking the herb. These symptoms generally last from 24 to 48 hours, but have been reported in some cases to last as long as 2 weeks."
~Wikipedia

bagoh20 said...

The Law of Threes states that you cannot survive more than:
Three minutes without air.
Three hours without shelter from harsh weather.
Three days without water.
Three weeks without food.

Therefore, to survive in the wilderness, you must seek out the following (in order of importance):
Air
Shelter
Water
Fire
Food

cheddar said...

She had a mouth full of dirt, and he was not wearing any shoes.

cheddar said...

She had a mouth full of dirt, and he was not wearing any shoes.

creeley23 said...

Wasn't there a couple who were high on Meth, who got lost and froze to death a few years ago, not far from a populated area? I believe the female actually spoke to rescuers on her cell phone at some point.

Inga: I thought of that story too -- from the documentary, "Meth: The World's Most Dangerous Drug."

They were supposed to be a clean-cut All-American couple who happened to try some crystal meth at a party and didn't know how dangerous it was. Maybe they were. In any event they're dead.

Like most commenters, I can't believe these kids weren't doing some serious drugs.

rcocean said...

I agree the story doesn't sound right.

rcocean said...

Stupid is as stupid does.

But this was too stupid to be believable.

creeley23 said...

bagoh20: Jimson weed is a possibility but I have my doubts. It's such an extreme high that it didn't gain traction even in the sixties and seventies with Carlose Castaneda advertising it.

I once heard a "friend of a friend" story about a guy who did some jimson weed, but nothing happened so he went out to the market and did some shopping. When he returned, a friend came over for a visit. They talked and drank coffee at the kitchen table until early in the morning before turning in.

The next morning, the guy got up, went out to the kitchen and saw the bag of groceries in the chair where his friend had been sitting. The table was filled with cups of cold, undrunk coffee.

True or not, jimson weed can impart hallucination so strong that they can be mistaken for reality, which is usually not the case for regular psychedelics.

Skyler said...

openidname said...
"I was praying for them while they were lost. 18 and 19-year-olds are just kids, they make mistakes, and they deserve adult protection."

No, they were 18 and 19 year old adults. B. Hussein Obama and Nancy Pelosi might call 26 year olds children, but no one else on the planet does.

bagoh20 said...

creeley23,

I doubt the Jimson weed too, but wiki says of effects plus what you describe even makes it sound more likely, not less. I mean the complete loss of reality for this girl to be eating dirt and drinking through stick straws sound like a pretty powerful trip. It's hard to get that high on most other stuff, except maybe THC or LSD. Even mushrooms don't make you that helplessly high.

creeley23 said...

bagoh20: I just don't know of any current interest in jimson weed. It's not something you take by mistake and it's so unpleasant, few people will take it twice.

But if not jimson weed, what?

I knew people in college who took very large doses of LSD and never got that far out.

Maybe there's some new designer drug out there.

bagoh20 said...

"bagoh20: I just don't know of any current interest in jimson weed.:

Well, you got me interested now. If I could talk to my groceries, who knows? I might talk a couple melons into bed. That would be a great improvement around here.

Illuninati said...

I used to hike in those mountains frequently. In most locations in the Cleveland National Forest you are surrounded by roads and houses at the base of the mountain so if you follow a ridge down to the valley below you will usually run across a road at some point.

The greater danger is the possability of becoming trapped on a ledge or falling off a cliff. People begin to descend along a canyon which is quite steep and sleppery. At some point the slope begins to increase enough so that they can no longer climb back the way they came down. This type of chute sometimes ends on a ledge or even dumps you off a cliff.

Aridog said...

Sounds like I'm not the only one around here who is thinking "hoax" or serious drugs. Initially, I figured drugs, but the more I read the more like a hoax it sounds.

I don't know "Orange County" and the adjacent mountains, so I must rely on those who do. Is there a "book deal" in the offing now?

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